Comments on: Transit Planners Plan Transit Projects, Not University Presidents http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/ Helping imagine a great college town for a great university Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:30:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sin Verguenza http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/comment-page-1/#comment-53760 Sin Verguenza Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:47:21 +0000 http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/#comment-53760 tt, I can honestly say that the Columbia Country Club's fate is not one of my primary concerns. It does provide beautiful scenery as you pass by walking or on bike. I would be no more welcome there than you. The Medical Center will be where most of the traffic is heading. The line should stop at Medical Center. The problem with the Silver Spring to Medical Center route is that it will not allow for increased development density at Chevy Chase Lake. The leadership at the Montgomery County Chamber of Commerce and the Chevy Chase Land Company (one and the same) will not be happy because their plans for some more Jimmy Choo type shops will be thwarted. On my rides past Connecticut Avenue I would much rather look at some well maintained landscape (golf course), than I would some face-lifted, Bentley driving, Eurotrash, there to buy $1000 handbags. This issue isn't as black and white as most will have you believe. There are extremely wealthy people on both sides of this debate along with NIMBYs and transit advocates. tt,

I can honestly say that the Columbia Country Club’s fate is not one of my primary concerns. It does provide beautiful scenery as you pass by walking or on bike. I would be no more welcome there than you.

The Medical Center will be where most of the traffic is heading. The line should stop at Medical Center.

The problem with the Silver Spring to Medical Center route is that it will not allow for increased development density at Chevy Chase Lake. The leadership at the Montgomery County Chamber of Commerce and the Chevy Chase Land Company (one and the same) will not be happy because their plans for some more Jimmy Choo type shops will be thwarted. On my rides past Connecticut Avenue I would much rather look at some well maintained landscape (golf course), than I would some face-lifted, Bentley driving, Eurotrash, there to buy $1000 handbags.

This issue isn’t as black and white as most will have you believe. There are extremely wealthy people on both sides of this debate along with NIMBYs and transit advocates.

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]]> By: tt http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/comment-page-1/#comment-53754 tt Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:28:28 +0000 http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/#comment-53754 Sin, let's suppose we have enough money to put the Purple Line underground through Chevy Chase. (And let's further suppose that we'd rather spend it on parkland than on the Corridor Cities Transitway, rail out US 29, or any other transit improvement.) Why wouldn't it make more sense to build the Purple Line above ground and condemn Columbia Country Club to turn it into a state park? Sin, let’s suppose we have enough money to put the Purple Line underground through Chevy Chase. (And let’s further suppose that we’d rather spend it on parkland than on the Corridor Cities Transitway, rail out US 29, or any other transit improvement.) Why wouldn’t it make more sense to build the Purple Line above ground and condemn Columbia Country Club to turn it into a state park?

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]]> By: Sin Verguenza http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/comment-page-1/#comment-53628 Sin Verguenza Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:06:15 +0000 http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/#comment-53628 Wayne, I am absolutely advocating heavy rail. It should however be running from Silver Spring to the Medical Center where the real demand will be. The Georgetown Branch Master Plan was written for a single track trolley system not a regional transportation solution. Leave the trail for transportation of the walking and cycling variety. Oh yeah Wayne, I forgot, you won't have direct access to the trail, so if you can't have your way let's punish those who have a great resource. If anyone reading this hasn't walked, or better yet cycled, the Capital Crescent Trail from Susanna Lane to Georgetown down Rock Creck Parkway and up Beach drive, it is wonderful. Come on over check it out, all are welcome. Save the Trail Wayne,

I am absolutely advocating heavy rail. It should however be running from Silver Spring to the Medical Center where the real demand will be. The Georgetown Branch Master Plan was written for a single track trolley system not a regional transportation solution. Leave the trail for transportation of the walking and cycling variety.

Oh yeah Wayne, I forgot, you won’t have direct access to the trail, so if you can’t have your way let’s punish those who have a great resource.

If anyone reading this hasn’t walked, or better yet cycled, the Capital Crescent Trail from Susanna Lane to Georgetown down Rock Creck Parkway and up Beach drive, it is wonderful. Come on over check it out, all are welcome.

Save the Trail

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]]> By: silverspringtrails http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/comment-page-1/#comment-53389 silverspringtrails Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:19:14 +0000 http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/#comment-53389 tt: I'll repeat the question here that I've asked elsewhere: Why would heavy rail need to push the CCT out of the corridor between Bethesda and Silver Spring? The concept plan presented by MTA as shown in the maps on its website show the trail has good separation already from the light-rail along the whole corridor. All trail and trail access crossings are already, or can easily be, grade separated from the rail. Heavy rail is not much wider than light rail, so it will fit in the available r.o.w. with the trail. So the main change for the trail might be that the fence between rail and trail would be higher. We see the MetBranch Trail being built alongside heavy rail in D.C. and in Takoma Park. So why can it not be done in Bethesda? I am not advocating heavy rail for the Purple Line - it would not work without extensive tunneling elsewhere where we can not use an old railroad corridor, and would have to be tunneled under the U. Md. campus. We can't afford it. But your point to Sin is a good one. If he really believes in heavy rail, he should be calling for it in Bethesda on the surface. He doesn't even have to give up the trail. tt: I’ll repeat the question here that I’ve asked elsewhere: Why would heavy rail need to push the CCT out of the corridor between Bethesda and Silver Spring? The concept plan presented by MTA as shown in the maps on its website show the trail has good separation already from the light-rail along the whole corridor. All trail and trail access crossings are already, or can easily be, grade separated from the rail. Heavy rail is not much wider than light rail, so it will fit in the available r.o.w. with the trail. So the main change for the trail might be that the fence between rail and trail would be higher.

We see the MetBranch Trail being built alongside heavy rail in D.C. and in Takoma Park. So why can it not be done in Bethesda?

I am not advocating heavy rail for the Purple Line – it would not work without extensive tunneling elsewhere where we can not use an old railroad corridor, and would have to be tunneled under the U. Md. campus. We can’t afford it. But your point to Sin is a good one. If he really believes in heavy rail, he should be calling for it in Bethesda on the surface. He doesn’t even have to give up the trail.

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]]> By: tt http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/comment-page-1/#comment-53369 tt Sat, 03 Nov 2007 20:42:53 +0000 http://rethinkcollegepark.net/blog/2007/496/#comment-53369 Sin, If you think it's urgent to extend the Purple Line to Tysons, you should be advocating for an above-ground heavy rail line through Chevy Chase and replacing the bike trail through a significant portion of Bethesda. That would mean no trail, or a significantly poorer trail, along much of the route, but surely we shouldn't waste a billion dollars going underground when we need that money for the extension to Tysons. Light rail represents a compromise - it provides a good trail and something that is less intrusive into the surrounding community, but the price is that it fails to maximize the transit possibilities of the corridor. The problem with the Bethesda-Tysons rail connection is that there are relatively few and small trip generators between Bethesda and Tysons. The reality of circumferential transit is that for it to succeed, you need to have lots of places where a moderate number of riders get on and off (like Bethesda, Silver Spring, Langley Park, UM, and New Carrollton). You don't have a huge destination point like downtown DC. Even Tysons isn't that kind of destination - it's really not that dense. It seems that way because it's so ugly, but because of all the parking lots it's actually much less dense than downtown Bethesda or Silver Spring, let alone DC. Thus it seems to me that it's reasonable, when building the Purple Line between Bethesda and Silver Spring, to give up some transit functionality for the benefits of the trail and something less intrusive into the neighborhood. But if you think the transportation demand justifies heavy rail in the corridor, the extra intrusion into the neighborhood of above-ground heavy rail would be a small price to pay - a much smaller price than the billion dollars required to put it underground between Bethesda and Silver Spring. Sin,

If you think it’s urgent to extend the Purple Line to Tysons, you should be advocating for an above-ground heavy rail line through Chevy Chase and replacing the bike trail through a significant portion of Bethesda. That would mean no trail, or a significantly poorer trail, along much of the route, but surely we shouldn’t waste a billion dollars going underground when we need that money for the extension to Tysons.

Light rail represents a compromise – it provides a good trail and something that is less intrusive into the surrounding community, but the price is that it fails to maximize the transit possibilities of the corridor.

The problem with the Bethesda-Tysons rail connection is that there are relatively few and small trip generators between Bethesda and Tysons. The reality of circumferential transit is that for it to succeed, you need to have lots of places where a moderate number of riders get on and off (like Bethesda, Silver Spring, Langley Park, UM, and New Carrollton). You don’t have a huge destination point like downtown DC. Even Tysons isn’t that kind of destination – it’s really not that dense. It seems that way because it’s so ugly, but because of all the parking lots it’s actually much less dense than downtown Bethesda or Silver Spring, let alone DC.

Thus it seems to me that it’s reasonable, when building the Purple Line between Bethesda and Silver Spring, to give up some transit functionality for the benefits of the trail and something less intrusive into the neighborhood. But if you think the transportation demand justifies heavy rail in the corridor, the extra intrusion into the neighborhood of above-ground heavy rail would be a small price to pay – a much smaller price than the billion dollars required to put it underground between Bethesda and Silver Spring.

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